Business & Communication

Pre-College Summer Institutes 2022

August 30, 2022 by University Communications & Marketing

“Cooking with Chemistry”

“Think Like a Champion”

“Psychology of Happiness”

Those might sound like great reads—or fascinating TED Talks.

But they were actually some of the engaging and hands-on courses offered at Chaminade University over the summer to groups of Hawaii high schoolers. The students were participants in Chaminade’s Summer Institutes, made possible at the university thanks to a partnership with the federal GEARUP program.

The workshops are designed to give high school students a taste of college—and get them hooked.

Participants this year for the seven, two-week sessions included ninth to 12th graders from Farrington, Kaimukī, Ānuenue and McKinley high schools. And in addition to going on field trips and tackling fun projects, they got the chance to attend co-curricular sessions on college readiness. The topics covered everything you’d need to know as you prepare to graduate from high school and plan for college, including applying for financial aid, navigating admissions and student life.

Pure Imagination

Aaron Williamson, assistant professor of Accounting, taught a session called “The Successes of Pure Imagination: Business Development and Entrepreneurial Mentorship.” He said the course was designed as “an immersion into the world of entrepreneurship”—from business plan development, brainstorming sessions, strategic thinking skills-building and the application of “principles of success” in daily life.

“The entire process of teaching the course was memorable—from idea inception to business plan presentations,” he said. “Having a small part in assisting students to see how an idea can impact the world and developing theoretical businesses that will be on the streets of tomorrow is so enjoyable.”

Cooking with Chemistry

In Dr. Francis Sakai-Kawada’s “Cooking with Chemistry” course, students tie-dyed their lab coats to better understand the chemistry of dyes, made their own bars of soap as they explored the properties of saponification, and took chemistry into the kitchen to make butter, mayonnaise, boba and ice cream.

“The goal was develop activities that were hands-on and engaging,” he said. “We had the creative license and flexibility to tie underlying scientific and chemistry concepts to every activity. Our priority was to incorporate an element of fun. We wanted our students to see that so much of what we deal with in our daily life can be related to chemistry, from food to household cleaning products.”

Kawada added that students started the course a little shy, but slowly opened up.

And the highlight of the session: visiting the IL Gelato Factory to talk story with owner Dr. Dirk Koeppenkastrop (a fellow chemist), who discussed his path from a chemistry lab to studying the art and science of gelato in Italy and the “perfect ratio of ingredients” that goes into the sweet treat.

Psychology of Happiness

Dr. Abby Halston, an assistant professor of psychology at Chaminade and clinical director of the university’s Marriage and Family Counseling program, taught the “Psychology of Happiness” course—which incorporated everything from guided meditation and breathing to personal journaling.

Students also put together personal stress management plans, worked to identify their hopes and dreams for college and beyond, and participated in mock career development interviews. The group also got to go on a field trip to Beyond Monet, an immersive experience into the artist’s works.

“I wanted to create a fun and life-changing institute where high school students could gain deep personal insight into their psychological wellbeing while learning personal management skills that could be utilized throughout their lifespan,” Halston said. “We focused on understanding the keys to happiness … and the power of our mindset to achieving our hopes and dreams.”

She added, “I cannot wait until next summer’s institute!”

For the Love of Math

For the Summer Institutes course on “Creating Number Sense to Increase Love of Math,” Assistant Professor of Education Dr. Travis Mukina wasn’t just teaching math fundamentals, but un-teaching some bad math habits. “Most days consisted of mental math activities that forced students to view numbers in ways their elementary school teachers did not allow,” Mukina said. “We broke numbers apart, changed their values and accommodated for the change at the end of the problem.”

“Hands-on manipulatives were also used daily to allow students to visually see how the numbers were working with each other in multiple different strategies. Every activity ensured the students were learning from each other rather than from me. It was amazing to witness!” Mukina added.

He said one of the big takeaways for students was that math isn’t a set of rules and procedures to memorize, but about creativity and flexibility. Mukina also wanted participants to see how math can be used seamlessly in everyday life—and how even complicated things can be broken down.

“I feel so honored to be part of this summer institute,” he said.

Living Pono

For the “Living Pono” institute, School of Nursing and Health Professions Professors Dr. Jennifer Nafarrete and Dr. Edna Magpantay-Monroe covered a wide range of health topics—from nutrition to human anatomy and physiology to reproductive health. Along the way, students tried their hand at cooking, engaged in some friendly competition, and put together presentations to tackle big topics.

Magpantay-Monroe said students really enjoyed the concepts of emotional intelligence and mindfulness, and especially loved their field trip to Ho‘omaluhia Botanical Garden—where they were challenged to strengthen their ability to “notice” and “be with nature.”

“I really enjoyed being a source of information to these students—helping them realize self-care is important but they also need to be self-aware of what is happening around them,” she said. “Being with nature helped increase their capacity to be mindful and reduce their stressors.”

Nafarrete added she was also happy to give students actionable, healthy solutions they can use everyday—like recipes. “My thought process was to find fun ways to engage students into making conscious choices about their health while considering how it affects the environment,” she said.

Think Like a Champion

Dr. Guanlin Gao, associate professor of Economics at Chaminade and director of the Economic Education Center for Excellence, focused on personal finance literacy in her course, “Think Like a Champion.” She wanted students to walk away with a better understanding of how to handle money.

“We spent one day visiting a local financial institution to learn more about how they operate and contribute to managing personal finances,” Gao said. “We spent another day on a fun team competition that involved budgeting, shopping and cooking. We even played a game that was all about inflation.”

Gao said the point of all the exercises was to help students see how better (and smarter) financial decisions ultimately lead to happier lives. “Interacting with the students was my favorite part,” she said. “For many of them, our trip to a bank was the first time they’d seen an actual vault. During our cooking competition, they all made nutritious meals. The best part: they were so proud of themselves.”

Economic Center for Excellence: Providing Financial Literacy Resources

August 22, 2022 by University Communications & Marketing

What does cooking have to do with economics? Dr. Guanlin Gao is glad you asked.

Gao, a professor of economics and director of the Economic Education Center for Excellence at Chaminade, is on a mission to bolster financial literacy, education, and research in Hawaii. That’s why on a recent weekday she was cooking with a group of teens after giving them a budget to plan a menu.

The exercise was part of a hands-on financial literacy workshop for Hawaii high school students—and one of the economic center’s latest educational offerings. EECE also recently welcomed 28 Hawaii State Department of Education teachers to campus from 15 Oahu K-12 schools for an innovative educator training program. The aim: help them incorporate accessible and real-world financial literacy lessons into their curriculum.

“We’re here to help people understand just how important economics is to their everyday lives. Financial literacy education has the power to promote economic empowerment, ultimately strengthening our communities, our families, and the broader local economy,” Gao said.

With the support of community stakeholders and several organizations, Chaminade launched the Economic Education Center for Excellence in 2021 with an ambitious mission: “to advance prosperity and economic justice in Hawaii and the Pacific through integrated economic education, training and research.”

Gao notes that financial literacy in Hawaii is a significant area of need.

Nearly 7 in 10 Hawaii residents are considered “financially unhealthy.” Approximately 59% of Hawaii families report they’re struggling financially. And while 21 states require high school students to complete a personal finance or financial literacy course, Hawaii isn’t one of them.

“We use a train-the-trainer approach at the center,” Gao said. “In other words, our educational approaches, initiatives and projects have exponential power because everyone who comes through our center has the tools and the capacity to pass on what they’ve learned on to others.”

Chaminade President Lynn Babington, PhD, said the university was also the perfect place to house the Economic Education Center for Excellence because of its wealth of academic expertise, strong connections with the community, and institutional mission of public service.

“The center has not been operating for long, but it is already making a positive impact in the community,” Babington said. “Over the last year, we have also learned just how strong the demand for economics education and financial literacy is across the state. We look forward to continuing our expansion of the center’s programming to reach more Hawaii educators and students.”

Gao said the center is focused on:

providing accessible training programs to K-12 educators and students;
engaging with community networks to bolster financial literacy discussions;
undertaking research that explores barriers to economic empowerment;
and demonstrating measurable outcomes and impacts.

She added that another key focus is offering educational programming on the Neighbor Islands. “We want to reach people statewide with high-quality teacher training and financial literacy tools, and we’ve already started to make connections with Neighbor Island teachers and schools,” Gao said.

Since kicking off in April 2021, the center has already offered hands-on training opportunities for teachers and workshops for students—like the Summer Research Institute seminar where Gao found herself cooking with teens. She said the students got $15 to cook a nutritious meal for a family of four. Along the way, they learned key skills, from budgeting to product affordability and planning.

Also as part of the workshop, the students visited HawaiiUSA Federal Credit Union and walked into the vault. The idea was to explore the importance of personal banking and savings, and make financial institutions less mysterious.

Gao said the teacher training seminar is just as hands-on.

Educators round out the workshop by sharing their lesson plans with their colleagues and walking through the exercise together. “Teachers are passionate about sharing these important financial literacy skills with their students,” Gao said, adding reviews of the courses were overwhelmingly positive.

“They want to share what they’ve learned with their fellow teachers and they have strongly recommended the trainings,” Gao said. “The next step is reaching more educators and then building and building on what they’ve learned. The center’s focus is all about scaling up but also about repetition.”

Gao said the center is also interested in working with the Hawaii Department of Education to incorporate financial literacy lessons into the social studies curriculum, and already sees the workshops with educators as core to weaving grade-level appropriate economics education into classrooms.

Speaking of big goals, Gao has no shortage of them.

Within five years, she wants the center’s training opportunities to have reached hundreds of Hawaii teachers—and their thousands of students. She is also seeking new grant funding, pursuing research for publication in journals, and excited about the potential for welcoming affiliate faculty or advisors.

“We know we have work to do when it comes to financial literacy in Hawaii. But we are proud to be making a difference and serving as a hub for economics education,” Gao said. “Financial literacy doesn’t have to be hard and unreachable. In fact, financial literacy should be accessible to everyone.”

Education Behind Bars: A Better Future Awaits

August 12, 2022 by University Communications & Marketing

Dr. Janet Davidson is a leader in criminology. She has spent decades researching in the field, mentored hundreds of students, published a long list of peer-reviewed papers in scholarly journals. Put simply, she’s seen it all—so she was surprised to be surprised when she started teaching behind bars.

Last year, she spearheaded Chaminade’s innovative effort to launch a Second Chance Pell Grant program at Halawa Correctional Facility. Inmates are given the opportunity to earn an associate’s degree in Business Administration after completing core and major-specific courses over two and a half years.

In addition to overseeing administration of the initiative, Davidson is one of the teachers for participants—nine in all after some natural attrition in the inaugural cohort. She expected classes with the inmates to be interesting, exciting and different. But she didn’t count on learning so much, too.

“It’s incredibly rewarding,” said Davidson, who is also vice provost for Academic Affairs at Chaminade. “They’re eager and they want to learn and they do their homework. I’m so proud Chaminade was able to launch this program. We educate for service, justice and peace and this program does that.”

Davidson said years of research have shown educational programs in prisons help bolster job opportunities for people once they get out of prison and decrease the chances they’ll re-offend.

And while there’s a stigma around inmates, Davidson said, the students in the cohort continue to impress her. “They’re just the best,” she said. “They’re not distracted by cell phones. They know this is a privilege so they’re engaged. It’s just a pleasure to have them in the classroom.”

Albert Batalona is one of those students. He said he applied to participate in the “second chance” program because he wants to be able to secure a better-paying job after he gets out of prison. He also hopes society sees his degree as proof that he can make a positive contribution to society.

“I’m really trying my best to learn all I can and take this seriously,” Batalona said, adding he’s enjoyed being able to connect with professors. “They have come to really teach us, not just go through the motions. They held no prejudice against me for my past mistake, something I’m not used to.”

Participant Anthony Chatman said it’s tough to always be judged by those past mistakes, but he’s hopeful Chaminade’s program could help change that. “Many in our community feel that we shouldn’t be given a second chance at freedom, let alone given the opportunity to educate ourselves,” he said.

That’s something John Granger has grappled with, too.

The 37-year-old said earning an associate’s degree through the prison program will give him an opportunity to start over. “I have for a while had some good ideas, but I lacked the resources to convert those ideas into dreams and those dreams into goals,” said Granger, a Maui resident. “I believe that not only if you know better you do better, but if you know deeper you will achieve greater.”

Kelson Akeo said he wanted to apply for the program for a simple reason: he wanted to be the first person in his family to get a college degree. “I wanted to prove to myself that I can be more than just a construction worker,” he said. “I can be a person who can utilize both mind and body.”

Akeo said while he is still serving his time, he’s beginning to see a new and brighter future for himself.

“Earning this degree will show me that I am worthy of having a brilliant future,” he said, adding his experience so far in the program has been a “rollercoaster” of emotions. Sometimes, he’s feeling proud about how far he’s made it. Other times, he feels overwhelmed and wants to give up.

“But then I hear that little voice saying to me, ‘you got this’ since enrolling into this program and working towards my degree changed me to be more appreciative to those who believe in giving second chances,” he said, adding he is so thankful to his professors and their belief in him.

“These instructors make me feel free again and that is a very rare feeling to have in prison.”

Davidson said it has been incredibly rewarding to see the program’s students build their confidence bit by bit as they tackle new assignments and grasp new concepts. Together, the cohort has completed a variety of courses since launching in Fall 2021, including business administration, accounting, English, communication, biology and math.

Davidson says it’s a joy teaching at the prison especially in her most recent course, Contemporary Issues in Criminal Justice. She says while the participants obviously bring personal experiences to the topic, they have focused on broadening their perspective with readings and class discussions.

“They wanted to understand the larger context and that’s powerful,” she said.

She called one of the students her “encyclopedia” because he’s so well-read and frequently brings newspaper clippings to class that connect with what’s being taught. Another student finished his GED in prison and can’t wait to finish the AA. “I’ve seen him coming into his own,” Davidson said.

Keola Rapoza chose to join the program because he wanted his years behind bars to count for something. He will also be the first person in his family to earn a college degree. “My experience so far has been awesome even though I’m doing a college program in prison and not in a college campus setting,” he said. “What I like most about this program is the professors are patient with us.”

Patient, he added, as in understanding inmates can’t always get access to the prison’s learning center and are sometimes further restricted by COVID lockdowns. And Rapoza said he’s proud to be paving the way for other inmates in the islands and setting a positive example. “Education is the most important thing in life,” he said. “I feel if everybody in this world was educated, there would be world peace.”

Nikkos Gordon has wanted to pursue a college degree since he was sentenced in 2012, and the Chaminade program has allowed him to think about what’s next in life. “I wanted to prove to others and myself that I can do this and I’ve always been able to do this,” Gordon said. “I wanted to show myself that I’ve changed and grew from the teenage boy who didn’t care much about pursuing a higher education. This program has shown me there are people who won’t treat me like an animal.”

Gordon added while he’s faced many obstacles on his academic journey, he’s determined to move forward. “I feel like knowledge is power and we can only change through education,” he said. “Society is so focused on retributivism it forgets that we’re still people even though we’ve made mistakes.”

Raphael Holley is so engaged in soaking up new knowledge he frequently writes down the books his professors mention so he can ask his family to order them and send them his way. “The experience has been a blessing for me,” he said. “It helps me to stay out trouble and it has given me another chance. Enrolling in this program and working towards my degree has changed my perspective.”

As part of the program, federal Pell Grant funding—through a pilot program—and private donations cover the costs of all tuition, books, and fees. Students had to apply and be selected for the first cohort.

COVID presented an additional obstacle, including frequent pandemic-prompted lockdowns.

Davidson said the cohort will graduate in Spring 2023 and the next group will begin that Fall.

“If we want safer communities, if we want healthier families, if we want people who are incarcerated to have a chance when they come out, these are the types of rehabilitative programs we should be offering,” she said. “The idea is to shift the mindset. It will cost society less in the end.”

Ronald Page can attest to the power of the program.

He said the classes and discussions keep his mind sharp—and leave him wanting more.

“I know I’m doing something positive for myself,” he said.

Alumna Breaks Down Barriers in Construction Industry

July 11, 2022 by University Communications & Marketing

The summer of Erin Kirihara’s junior year at Chaminade, she attended a job fair organized by the university mostly—she jokes—to appease her parents and stay busy. At the time, she wasn’t sure of a career path to pursue, so she decided to accept an internship offer at a construction firm.

It was an opportunity that would change her life.

“I always thought I’d be really good at management, but I knew nothing about this field,” she said.

That summer spent at global construction and management consultancy firm Rider Levett Bucknall (RLB) turned into an impressive career. Eighteen years and many promotions later, Kirihara is now executive vice president of the company’s North American practice and a member of the Board of Directors.

Kirihara, who graduated from Chaminade in 2006 with a degree in Business Administration, said her career trajectory is proof of her motto: “One opportunity used wisely can change your life dramatically.” Sometimes, she added, that means making your own opportunities.

“And you’ve got to be ready to put in the hard work,” she said.

Kirihara graduated from Maryknoll School and chose Chaminade University because she wanted a student-centered and individualized college experience. “I think I would have gotten swallowed alive if I went to a larger school,” she said. “Chaminade was more like a family and felt right.”

The best part, Kirihara added, was building strong relationships with professors.

“They knew you and you got to know them,” she said.

Erin Kirihara '06 giving a tour to Girl Scouts Hawaii — Erin Kirihara ’06 gives a Park Lane Ala Moana tour to a Girl Scouts Hawaii troop

When she landed that summer internship, Rider Levett Bucknall had global backing but only eight people in its Honolulu office, Kirihara said. Today, the firm has about 55 employees across the Hawaiian Islands and is behind several iconic projects, including the luxury Park Lane Ala Moana on Oahu.

The residential development is attached to Ala Moana Center.

“Now that was an amazing project,” said Kirihara, who managed it on behalf of the developer.

The mother of two young children said she’s thankful to her family for their support and to her employer for providing her with the chance to advance her career in a traditionally male-dominated field. Her own success has also inspired her to encourage girls and young women to pursue opportunities in construction. She said the field offers a diversity of jobs for all talents.

“Women just rock. We’re meant for project management,” Kirihara said. “We’re great communicators.”

Kim Hehir, Erin Kirihara '06, Lori Lum and Kay Mukaigawa — Kim Hehir, Erin Kirihara ’06, Lori Lum and Kay Mukaigawa at the Girl Scouts Hawaii Women of Distinction dinner

That’s exactly what Kirihara told a group of Girl Scouts in 2017 when she was named a Woman of Distinction by the organization and got the chance to give young girls a glimpse at what she does. “I walked them through a day in my life and they were like, ‘Wow. This is what you do? This is so cool.’ It opened their eyes to the possibilities they might find in this industry,” she said.

Kirihara said that back at Chaminade, she opted for Business Administration because she thought business was the most universal language. She learned the basics—like accounting and marketing—while also discovering a passion for community involvement and corporate responsibility.

“Everything can relate to business, including doing things that are right and ethical,” she said.

Kirihara added she’s proud to volunteer her time with several Hawaii organizations. She sits on the board of directors for HUGS (Help Understandings & Group Support), an organization that helps families with seriously ill children. She is also on the executive board for Child and Family Service, which programs for at-risk youth, domestic violence emergencies services, elder care and more.

“We have an obligation to make Hawaii a better place to live,” she said.

Her advice to young people just getting started out in the business world, including construction and project development, is to embrace flexibility and remain hungry for learning. “Turn that first opportunity into whatever you want to make of it, do what you have to do,” she said.

“Hard work, commitment, determination—they’ll help you excel in any career.”

Chaminade Associate Professor Awarded Fulbright-Hays Grant

May 24, 2022 by University Communications & Marketing

Eva Washburn-Repollo, School of Business and Communication

The Fulbright-Hays Group Projects Abroad (GPA) Program under the U.S. Department of Education recently awarded a $100,000 grant to Dr. Eva Washburn-Repollo of Chaminade University to fund a summer program meant to increase Hawaii’s capacity in Filipino culture-based education in K-12 classrooms.

The federal funding will support a short-term, curriculum development project spearheaded by Dr. Washburn-Repollo titled the “Cebuano Language and Culture Program,” in which program participants will travel this summer to the Philippines. Dr. Washburn-Repollo is an associate professor at the university’s School of Business and Communication.

During the Philippines trip, a travel group of undergraduate and graduate Education majors, administrators and higher education instructors and K-12 teachers will develop creative Cebuano-English educational resource materials as part of their lesson plans on the islands of Negros Oriental and Cebu in the central Visayas region of the Philippines, where the Cebuano language is spoken primarily.

Program selectees will receive language lectures/workshops from the Cebuano Studies Center in the University of San Carlos. On Cebu, they will also visit thematic sites such as indigenous herbal gardens, mangroves and coral reefs. On Negros Oriental, they will attend lectures/workshops at Silliman University’s Institute of Environmental and Marine Sciences (SU-IEMS), and Silliman’s Marina Mission Clinic, sites chosen because of their strengths in the focal areas of marine biology and indigenous gardens. They will also be working in partnership with scientists from the Jose Rizal Memorial State University.

Program activities will begin on June 13, 2022, and end on July 23, 2022.

The GPA program leverages Chaminade’s strong teacher education program and links to Hawai‘i’s K-12 classrooms, its success rate working with diverse student populations, and its strong connections to Hawaii’s Filipino community. Dr. Washburn-Repollo is the program’s project Director and her strength as a native Cebuano speaker and translator, her connections to the Philippines and the partner institutions, and her background in curriculum development and creative pedagogies will be supported by Chaminade’s School of Business and Communication and the School of Behavioral Science and Education.

Dr. Washburn-Repollo hopes through the program to increase Hawai‘i’s capacity in offering Filipino culture-based education in the K-12 classrooms.

“It is an honor as a native Cebuano speaker and translator to be able to partner with local institutions,” Washburn-Repollo explained. “It is vital to encourage educational development by honoring children’s language and culture.”

As part of their Fulbright-Hays Group Projects Abroad (GPA) program, the U.S Department of Education provides grants to support overseas research. Approximately $100K or about 100 percent of the total cost of the project will be financed through the federal funding, with the remaining amount of the project paid for by Chaminade University through in-kind contributions and other grant sources.

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Chaminade University of Honolulu believes in the power of education to drive positive change, broaden perspectives, and deepen our understanding of one another. With an emphasis on transformative service-learning experiences, we prepare students to serve as tomorrow’s leaders, inspiring and challenging them to use their minds and their hearts to help build stronger and more just communities. We are proud to serve as Hawai‘i’s only Marianist university and rely on these values to guide us in delivering a high-quality education with an individualized approach and a focus on excellence, innovation, and change. Established in 1955, we offer more than 30 undergraduate and graduate programs, including doctoral degrees in education, psychology, and nursing practice.

Students Take Second in National Business Case Competition

May 19, 2022 by University Communications & Marketing

A big pizza brand wants to expand their reach to target more Generation Z customers.

How do you help them do it?

That was exactly the real-world challenge that participants of this year’s IACBE Business Case Competition tackled, putting together an in-person presentation that included a robust marketing plan, business analytics, and an overall strategy for delivery—and all in less than a month.

A team of Chaminade students from the School of Business and Communication was up to the challenge. And after a lot of research and hours of planning, they traveled to the competition in Costa Mesa, California to make their pitch. The result? A second-place win and some excellent experience.

“Our team came up with a great business strategy,” said Chaminade senior Tyrone Rixie, after the awards were announced. “It included big improvements to their app, website, and an art contest. The enhancements were all about making the company more modern and digital-friendly.”

Chaminade junior Peyton Oshiro, who was also on the team, liked that the competition was reality-based. The business strategy was for Donatos Pizza, which serves customers across 400 locations in 30 states. Oshiro said developing a plan for an actual company made the competition all the more difficult.

“When we arrived, we were a little nervous,” Oshiro said.

“Overall, we really came together. It was a great experience and I think we really killed it.”

Juniors Michael Rose and Ashley Yoshikawa were also on the team, which received support from lead faculty mentor Richard Kido, an associate professor of Accounting, and two team advisors: Wera Panow-Loui, who teaches Marketing, and Dr. Eddie Merc, an assistant professor in Business Analytics.

For their business presentation, the Chaminade team conducted a survey of more than 100 Gen Z students, polling them on what social media platforms they prefer and their habits online. At the core of their strategy was reimagining the brand to include a cutting-edge online experience that also highlighted the company’s family foundation given Gen Z values and social awareness.

They also pitched a strong Instagram presence designed to bolster engagement.

The judges praised the students for their professionalism, the strength of their presentation, and for weaving in innovative strategies to attract younger customers. One of the judges thought the Chaminade team put together the best package of strategies for a Gen Z profile.

Faculty mentors also said the judges appreciated the poise and confidence the Silversword team demonstrated during a question-and-answer session. The takeaway: it was clear they were prepared.

Yoshikawa, the junior, said that was particularly positive feedback.

“We did a lot of work. There was a definite lack of sleep and lots of late nights of preparation,” Yoshikawa said. “To be able to present our work to professionals, it was a really great experience.”